Gyaru Culture: Yone-san and the Cult of Egg Magazine
Baggy white socks draped over loafers, a plaid tie at the neck, bleached blond hair and a hyper mini skirt- the uniform of the Gyaru [ギャル]. Coupled with a brash attitude and their ubiquitous reverse peace sign poses found in purikura and street style snaps, gyaru not only caused a fashion shockwave but also a cultural one, sparking a media frenzy over the supposed “decaying morals” of young girls, challenging expectations how Japanese women were supposed to behave.
Gyaru circa 1990.
Peaking in the late 1990s and lasting well into the 2000s, gyaru culture emerged from affluent schoolgirls rebelling against ideas of what “good Japanese girls” should look like, scrapping previous ideas of a pale, modest, and submissive femininity.
Gyaru in addition to going against “traditional” beauty standards also lived lifestyles contrary to a “good girl” image expected of schoolgirls the time.
In constant warfare with Japan’s uber strict high school dress codes banning makeup and outfit customization, gyaru fought back by tanning their skin, rolling up their skirts, and dressing to impress other girls through increasingly outrageous outfits. This phenomenon was chronicled by street style photographers patrolling the streets on the lookout tp record this explosive transformation in fashion.
A current snapshot of some of “Black Diamond” a gyaru family in Tokyo’s, current members.
More than just a look, gyaru became a full-fledged lifestyle girls “pledged themselves” to, forming clans [most notably Black Diamond] that functioned as chosen families, creating their own intricate slang called Gyaru-moji often typed on their bedazzled Motorola flip phones, and developing the Para-Para dance style flexed at the club in between rounds of karaoke or sipping bubble tea.
Shibuya was the undisputed “Mecca of Gyaru Style”, most notably the department Shibuya 109 as epicenter of the gyaru-universe, filled with shops now in the mainstream like EMODA or COCOLULU who emerged as brands made by Gyaru for Gyaru.
Gyaru circa 2010
It’s impossible to talk about gyaru style’s osmosis from tight-knit groups of defiant high school girls to a national phenomenon, without paying homage to egg magazine and it’s founder Yone-san [AKA Yasumasu Yonehara]. Known as the unofficial “Bible of Gyaru Style”, egg magazine started in 1995 and still published today, revolutionized what a fashion magazine could be. Yone-san armed with his trusty Cheki camera, scoped out gyarus in their natural habitats and befriended them along the way, starting a magazine made for girls who dressed to impress themselves, not society at large.
Yone-san, far from being a one-trick pony, is an accomplished editor and photographer with a dedication to chronicling subcultures. He went on to create Nicola, and Aufoto amongst other creative projects all with usually one thing in common, celebrating girls who are unapologetically themselves.
Is there gyaru fashion comeback? That’s up for debate. With Y2K revivalism in full swing, the newer generation has become inspired by scouring Pinterest or Instagram for archived purikura snaps, street style photos, and magazine scans from gyaru’s heyday, and any walk down Harajuku the in past couple of months would lead you to think gyaru isn’t dead just transformed.
However, Yone-san as a legendary figure who witnessed the origins and rise of gyaru culture firsthand, has his doubts “true gyaru” culture has returned. “It's so different now, gyaru wasn’t just a fashion style - it was a mindset.”
Sabukaru had the opportunity to talk to Yone-san about the early days of egg, gyaru philosophy, and what he thinks is next for the future of Japan’s youth-driven fashion subcultures.
aN inTERVIEW WITH YONESAN
Can you briefly introduce yourself to people who may not know about you yet?
まず最初にまだ知らない方に向けて軽く自己紹介をしていただけますか？
I'm Yasumasa Yonehara. I was originally working as an editor for a few publications, but I realized how hard it is to bring your own ideas to fruition when you're employed by someone else. So, I started doing my own thing and egg was my first project.
米原康正です。基本は編集者として色んな雑誌とか写真集で元々はそういうものを作ってた人間なんですけど、途中から人と絡んで一緒にやると自分の意思のものが作れない事に気付いて、自分の企画したものとかをやり出したのが egg ぐらいからかな.
Yone-san shot by Mayu Uchida
For readers who aren’t familiar with Gyaru culture, can you briefly explain what it is?
そもそも若年層だとギャル文化を知らない子たちが多くなってくると思うんですけど、簡単に説明してもらってもいいですか？
The original Gyaru you’re talking about were part of a subculture born in the 1990s, a time when Teamers [groups of middle and high school delinquents who hung out around places like Shibuya and Shinjuku] became a thing. Their girlfriends of these guys, were the original Gyarus. Because these Teamers were feared by people, they didn’t need to worry about their surroundings, which gave the same freedom for their girlfriends. Most girls in Japan care about their surroundings, the trends, and what other people are doing, and allow those ideas and societal norms to define them, but the original Gyarus were among the first girls who didn’t have to care about those things.
egg magazine was an excuse for me to document these sorts of girls in Japan. I recruited these sorts of girls who didn’t care about what other people thought of them and lived on their own terms, and compiled their pictures to make a magazine.
今言われているギャルカルチャーっていうのは、１９９０年代にチーマーって言われるオシャレなヤンキーじゃない不良が出てきて、彼らの彼女になってた様な人たちが元々のギャルなの。チーマーって喧嘩とか強かったから周りの事を意識しなくてよかったの。日本のほとんどの女の子は周りの事を意識して自分の事を決めるから、初めて周りの事を意識しないでいられる女の子が生まれたのが１９９０年代のチーマーの女の子たちだったの。
そういう女の子を集めて本作ろうと思って始めたのが最初の egg さ。要するに周りを気にしないで自分だけで生きていける様な女の子を集めたのが僕が作った最初の egg。
Some of the Sabukaru community were huge fans of egg during the 2000s. Can you explain a little bit about how Gyaru culture was back then when it first started in the 90s, and how it’s changed over the years?
サブカルにも２０００年代の egg を愛読していたメンバーが何人かいるんですけど、９０年代に始まったギャル・カルチャ―は当時と比べてどういう風に変わりましたか？
By the time you were reading, girls' culture in Japan was very different from when I first started egg. Back when I created egg in 1995-1998, there was little to no male gaze involved in the creation of Gyaru culture. But now, since the male audience is part of it, the real Gyarus who don’t want to do anything with guys meddling with their culture, so they are no longer interested in or involved in today’s rendition of Gyaru culture.
Since around the 2000s, Gyaru culture became something to appease men to a degree. But real Gyaru culture isn’t about how one looks or dresses, but rather a mentality. But as businesses started to realize that there is a market for men, it’s been about dressing a certain way to appease men. Basically, Gyaru culture used to be a girls-only culture —for girls, by girls.
ガールズ・カルチャーの意味がその時はもう違ってきてたね。１９９５〜１９９８年に僕が egg を作った時は男子受けっていうのは一切なかったのよ。今はもう男受けが入ってるから、そういうのが嫌いな人たちはもうギャルとかそういうところにいない。
２０００年を越した時から男子受けになった。ギャルって恰好ではなく精神性を示してるものだから、あの恰好が男の子に受けるって事が１９９９年後半には分かってきて。要するにギャル・カルチャ―って元々は女の子たちだけのカルチャ―だったの。
Yonehara believes that as Gyaru subculture became more popular it’s focus on the “female-gaze” shifted towards appealing to patriarchal society.
Let's talk about your childhood and life after graduating college. What led up to you pursuing a career as an editor and then founding egg?
幼少期から egg の始まりまでのハイライトやインスピレーションについてお話して頂けますか？そもそも編集者になろうと思ったキッカケにあたるエピソードってあったりしますか？
Since I was young, I hated the “majority”, or things that are mainstream. For example Japanese societal norms and the beliefs of general society. So, I was constantly searching for the “minority”, something that was less known and had a smaller following. During the 70s, when I was a middle schooler, I was a fan of rock music during a time when it was becoming more popular. But in the countryside of Kyushu, where I grew up, there was only one person per class, or maybe one to two people per grade who liked rock. I sought out those people all the time and soon my work became reflective of this past time - work that focused on marginal groups of people - and it became much more fun.
僕元々多数っていうのが好きじゃなくて。日本では多数が普通と言われるんだけど、普通って要するにいっぱいという事だから、そういうのがすごく嫌で。常に少数派 ／少ないものっていうのを探してて。僕７０年代前半はまだ中学生だったんだけど、ロックが好きだったりして。それで九州の田舎でロックが好きだった人、特に海外のロックが好きだった人たちってクラスに一人とか学年に二人ぐらいしかいなかったりするのね。そういう少数派の人たちで少数派の人たちを追っかけてるうちに仕事でも同じ様な人を扱う仕事が面白くなってきて。
You’ve stated before that egg was a magazine for girls who liked to dress up for other girls. What were other Japanese women’s magazines at that time like? What made egg different?
先程 egg は女性が他の女性のためにオシャレを披露するためのマガジンだと仰ってましたが、egg 始めたて当時の日本の女性向け雑誌はどういう感じでしたか？競争優位に立つためにどういった事をやられましたか？
Back then, women’s magazines were only about appeasing men's eyes. At the time, women's magazines, quite literally, just talked about how to dress, talk, and act in order to appeal to men. Then, egg magazine began as a magazine written for girls and women about what other girls and women find cute, attractive, or interesting without the presence of the male gaze. A magazine about their own interests. Other than egg, I think women's magazines were all male-focused since Japan has a strong patriarchal society. Especially because romantic relationships are important to Japanese people, you have to be liked by men, otherwise you start to think something is wrong with you. To be honest, I don’t think much has changed even after egg magazine started.
やっぱり全部が男に受けるためにという体でしかなかったの。egg 以前は女の子の雑誌というと女の子の格好は「男子に受けるためにどうしたらいいか？」っていう恰好だから。そこで egg では女子に受ける、つまり「こういう恰好を可愛いと思ってるんだ」っていう同性同士が見れるという本が出来た。egg 以降も同じなんだけど、日本って男社会の感じが凄く強いから、結局そういう事をしていても男に受けるという事が大事で。
日本って恋愛依存症の国だから「男に好かれてないと私はおかしい」って女の子は皆んな思っているから、それを煽るような雑誌ばっかしで egg が出た後でもあんまし変わってないと思う。メディアの在り方が未だにそういう感じだからそういうものを見ない人が増えて男受けしなくてもオーケーになってきてるけど、メディアを見ている限り男受けしなきゃダメなの。
What did the public think about egg when it first started?
egg を始めた時、一般的な雑誌と比べてとても変わった話題を取り上げてたと思うんですが、世論の反応はどうでしたか？
At first, they were like who are we going to sell this to? Who in the world would buy this magazine?
Male editors were saying that. They couldn’t imagine any topic other than “how to appeal to men” would be read by the public. I had to fight back and be like no, these people [gyarus and women] can and will read the magazine.
At first publishers were like, who is going to read this… because the magazine was focused on a new subculture and sense of style. But then a publication company called ミリオン (Million) approached me and agreed to create egg. They were originally an erotic book publishing company. But, the editor of Million was a fan of my work and often used my projects as a base to create books. So they consulted with me and I offered the idea of Gyaru girls, specifically a magazine dedicated to their interests, who were at the cusp of becoming trendy at that time. I knew the topic would be popular among other girls and women. That was the beginning of egg around 1995.
最初は「誰にこんな本を売るんだ」って聞かれた。「誰が買うんですかこんな本」って男の編集者に言われてた。男しか見ないじゃない。だから「誰にこれ見せれるの」って言われて「いや、雑誌に出てるような子が見ればいいじゃん」って言い返して喧嘩してたんだけどね。
最初はそういう事があって出版社が見つからなかったんだけど、ミリオン出版っていうエロ本の会社があって。そこの編集者が僕の事好きで僕の企画してた事を色々真似して本を作ってたりしてたんだけど、そこが相談にきて「こういう女の子が流行ってて、絶対こういう女の子に受けるからこの本を作ろう」って 僕 が言って動き出したのが1995年。
What kind of prior work did you do that inspired this publishing company to reach out to you?
ミリオン出版とお仕事される前はどういった関係にあったんですか？
Before egg magazine, it was the 1990s bubble economy in Japan. During this time, there was an era called the “Juliana Boom”, where hyper-techno and clubbing was super popular, especially at this club called “Juliana’s”. I was writing lots of articles for various magazines to document the boom.
その前にジュリアナブームというのがあって。ドキュメントの記事をよく色んな雑誌で書いてて、アンダーグラウンドのものとかを当時は追っかけててそのドキュメントの記事を見るとその時の流行ってる物とか分かるから。だからきっと他の編集者にとっていいネタになったと思うのよ。それで僕がジュリアナブームを追っかけてた時に地方に行って、扇子を持ってで踊ってる人たちがいたの。1990年代のバブルの時に地方でもそれが流行ってて、そういう人たちのインタビューとかして。福井県の「キングアンドクイーン」っていうクラブで下着で踊ってたりするんだよ。そういう女の子も田舎だから家族と一緒に住んでたりしてて、そういう所も合わせて両方の姿の写真を撮ってインタビューする見たいのをやってて。それを egg の編集長がそれを見て、そういうダンスのする女の子の格好の為の本を作ってたりしてた。
What kind of dancers, like strippers?
ストリッパーとかにあたるダンサーですか？
No, not strippers. They were regular girls in lingerie and underwear. [Editor's note: the dancing was probably women dressed in “Bodi-kon style” a subculture in the 80s that may have inspired Gyaru or Para Para style dancers, which was popular with gyaru in the 90s].But at that time in Tokyo, this was thought to be a normal occurrence at clubs - girls would wear flashy swimsuits or underwear and dance. The girls from the countryside saw that this was “normal” in Tokyo and decided to copy and do the same. Japan is really weird - anytime something becomes thought of as “normal”, anyone has the courage to do it [laughs].
いや、普通に一般の子が下着姿になるの。でもその当時は東京では普通と思われてたの。クラブで派手な水着とか下着とかで踊るのが普通と思ってたから、田舎の子もそうやって同じ事してたの。日本って変なのよ。普通だと思ったら何でもできるんだよ。（笑）
Why the name egg?
egg の名前の由来についてお聞かせください。
It was the editor's idea, so I don't know why or what it means. We just went with it.
egg は編集長がつけた名前だから、割りと何も意味はないと思う。僕は名前分からん。
What was the moment that you knew that gyaru culture deserved its own magazine, rather than thinking it was just a passing trend?
ギャル文化を世の中に広める必要性を感じたキッカケはなんですか？何故ギャル文化を雑誌で取り上げる必要性を感じたのでしょうか？
It was around when chima or teamer appeared and I noticed their girlfriends were completely different from other girls. It was like these girls didn’t even care if their underwear was showing - something that would usually never happen in Japan. Actually, during the time that egg was truly for girls, all these girls were walking around with their underwear showing. But soon men started realizing what egg and gyaru was, so other “regular” girls, I feel bad saying regular [laughs], started dressing in that manner to appeal to these men. The difference between gyaru girls and regular girls though, was that the regular girls would pull their skirts down to hide their underwear when walking up the stairs and stuff.
One might think, “then why are you wearing such short skirts if you’re getting uncomfortable and embarrased by it?” This change started happening around 1998. In just 3 years - the female-gaze, interests that girls and women had in absence of the male-gaze - all these things became modified to fit the male-gaze again as it became “normalized”. The people who call themselves gyaru nowadays dress to impress men, so in my opinion they aren’t really embodying true gyaru culture [laughs].
チーマーが出てきた時に、彼らの彼女が今までの女の子たちと明らかに違う女の子だったから。もう全然パンツ見えてても平気みたいな感じは日本にはなかったのよ。
そのパンツ丸見えの子たちは、 egg がちゃんと彼女らの為の本を作ってた時は、皆んなパンツ見せて歩いてたの。ところがそれをおじさんたちが egg というものに気付いて。そういう格好をするとおじちゃんたちにも受けるという事に気付いた時に一般な子たちがその格好をしだすのよ。そうするとパンツ見えるじゃん。ところが本物ではないギャルは逆にパンツを隠すのよ。本物は「じゃ履くなよそんな物」って思うじゃない。そんな風にパンツを見せることの意味が入れ替わってきたのが1998ぐらい。
３年間で本当に一気に一般化すると、女の子の目線で作って女の子が見るものだったカルチャーが、おじさんたちが考える援助交際みたいなエッチな目でしか見えなくなった。それをわかってやってる子たちが今「ギャル」っていわれてるけど、俺からするとそんなのギャルじゃないじゃんと思うのよ（笑）。
Because they’re not showing their underwear?
パンツ見せてないから？
Basically, it's an outfit to please men right? But because of the male-gaze, it’s still embarrassing so they have to hide their underwear. The whole time they’re thinking about what men and other people would think, and care about their opinion. I feel that if they were actual gyaru, they wouldn’t care about what men think and would let their underwear show because it doesn’t matter. So the gyaru I think of are extremely different from today’s so called gyaru.
From 1998, girls who were the original gyaru started calling themselves “dancers”. [Editor's note: many of these dancers are called “Para Para” Dancers.] There was a huge dance boom during this time, so they started calling themselves dancers to explain the fact that they were dressing super flashy or showing skin. If they tell men this, the men don’t question their outfits as much. They also get to distance themselves from the new meaning of gyaru, which again, from 1998 onwards, is a style to appease men. But the media is created and controlled by men.
So the media used or exploited the original gyaru and turned gyaru style into a “sexy, erotic” style. This is also when hostess/bar-girls started dressing like gyaru, making the culture into a costume.
要するに、もうそんなの単におじさん好きなだけじゃん。だからそういう恰好を隠さないとおじさんたちは恥ずかしいと思うという、おじさんの事を考えて行動するようになる。「普通ギャルだったらしないでしょ」って思う。だから僕の今思ってるギャルはもう全然違うとこにいる。
1998からギャルだった子たちはダンサーと言われる人たちになってて、ダンスブームが始まるの。ダンサーというのがおじさんたちには分からないからダンサーの事。だから「ダンサーです」って言うとギャルの格好を知っててもおじさんたちには分からないから、元々ギャルだった子たちがギャルじゃくてダンサーとして名乗るようになったの。でもメディアはおじさんたちが作ってるから、今までのギャルをガンガン使って、「ギャルはエロい」とか言って、そこでキャバ嬢とかがどんどんギャル化していくのよ。
So it’s the media’s fault for associating gyaru culture with sex, sexiness, and hostess bar costumes?
他のメディアのせいでキャバ嬢の格好がエロい印象になったんですね。
Yes, the media used gyaru girls to push their own agendas and influenced the public to associate gyaru outfits with ecchi or lewd-ness.
(答え: ) そう、メディアは自分たちの価値観で女の子扱うからそういう格好してたらもうエッチという言葉をすり込むの。
What kind of neighborhoods and backgrounds did the original gyaru come from? In Tokyo where did they like to hang out, what kind of jobs did these girls do?
ギャル文化は元々どういうエリアやどういう背景の子たちから生まれたんですか？都内ではどんな場所で遊んでたり、働いてたり、学校に行ってたんですか？
The original gyarus’ hometowns were on the Toyoko Line, chima too for that matter. They have strong locality and regional characteristics. When the media started to broadcast that gyaru style is popular among men, more and more girls from the countryside started to dress like gyaru. When these country girls would arrive in Tokyo for work or vacation, they would find the Tokyo gyaru to be less flashy than they were dressing back in the countryside. They would think things like, “Wait, aren't Tokyo gyarus’ skirts too long?” and come back with shorter skirts in order to stand out more. In that sense, countryside girls started changing the gyaru image too, to become more male-appealing, more sexy.
The original gyaru didn’t wear mini skirts to attract men - they wore them simply because they wanted to. It was almost like chima’s uniforms and something unique only to them. At school, gyaru would be looked at strangely. But when egg started and gyaru style became more normalized or common, the countryside girls all started to dress like gyaru. The skirt lengths became shorter and shorter because country girls wanted to stand out more and did everything in excess.
Honestly, gyaru just enjoyed hanging out in the city. Mainly anywhere within Shibuya became a hotspot. Especially in front of Shibuya 109 and the likes. That’s where egg started the “snap series”. But honestly, anywhere where gyaru and their friends could hang out and play and had places to sit like in Harajuku, in front of Gap - they were there. These days it's all just a walking town though.
元々ギャルやチーマは東横線沿線の街とかが地元だから地元性が強かったのね。だから東京に住んでる人たちというのがギャルだったの。ところがおじさんたちに受けたようなギャルはメディアを見てからそういう格好をしだしたから、田舎の方のギャルが増えて東京に来だしたのよ。それで東京に来ると「え、スカート長くない」ってぐらい田舎の子のスカートって短くしてたの。だってやっぱり田舎の子は目立ちたいもんね。だから田舎の子たちがギャルのイメージを作って変えていったの。男向けにするしもっとエロくしていったの。
元ギャルのミニスカートは受ける為のミニスカートじゃなかったの。着たかったからだけ。チーマの制服みたいなもので、自分たちだけのユニフォームの感じ。それでその当時はクラスの中でも「誰あいつ」って言われるぐらい凄く変な目で見られてたわけよ。ところがそれが egg が出てきて一般的になってくと田舎の子かちが一気にその格好しだしたのよ。それまで長かったスカートがどんどん短くなっていって、田舎ってやっぱり流行りのものが過剰になるから、より短く、よりエロくなってったの。
本当に街の中で皆んなが集まるっていうのが楽しかったんだよね。別にどこに行くとかじゃなくて、その時一番集まってたのは渋谷だったね。それでもっと集まれる場所があったのよ、１０９の前とか。そこで egg がスナップやりだしたんだけど。だからもっとただで遊べる場所、原宿にしてもギャップの前とか昔は座れたし。今は全部そういうのはなくなって歩くだけの街になっちゃったよね。
So, Gyaru were especially found hanging around in Shibuya, but more than that, they were found everywhere in Tokyo?
渋谷に多かったけど、東京のあちこちにいたという事ですか？
Yes, they were pretty much in every large city. But not in large numbers. During the origins of gyaru, there truly was only one gyaru per class or something like that. Also, the first gyaru were “delinquents”. Not ヤンキー (yankees) types, but simply people who didn’t care about society norms and did their own thing or rebelled by doing their own things.
However, a lot of people thought they were delinquents because of how they looked. Gyaru and Yankees were both seen as delinquent subcultures, but acted in completely different ways. Yankees needed an enemy or an opponent to rebel against, and would wait for those opportunities to come to them. But gyaru found their own pastimes and searched for fun things to do themselves, instead of waiting for fun to come to them.
そう。ちょっと大きい街には絶対ギャルはいたりしたけど、多数ではないのよ。ギャルが生まれて出始めた頃はやっぱりクラスに一人とか学年で何人としかいない感じ。それで最初のギャルは不良。ヤンキーじゃなくて、ずっと不良人。ヤンキーは要するに反抗するため、アンチがいないとダメなの。ヤンキーは「つまんないなあ」と思っても自分で面白い事を探そうとしなかったの。不良はドンドン自分で面白いこと探してたのよ。ヤンキーは何か来るのを受け身で待ってた感じ。
Gyaru style emerged in the 90s before social media, so how did this style become popular? In what other ways did it spread besides through egg magazine?
ギャルのスタイルは９０年代、つまりSNSの前に生まれた文化ですが、egg 以外のマガジンはどういう風に認知度を上げていたんですか？
There was this night TV program called Tonight that often broadcasted stories about gyaru culture. But of course, they would change the meaning of it to appeal to men more. They sensationalized the subculture by talking about it in a raunchy or scandalous way. It would broadcast around 11:50 at night, a very dad-joke kind of program, and the countryside girls would often watch that. Actually, everybody would watch, it was quite popular. But the TV show caused a scandal when it mentioned gyaru and how they would participate in compensated dating.
You know of compensated dating [also called Enjo kōsai], right? It’s quite an important part of gyaru culture. Nowadays it would probably be considered or called prostitution. But, back when it first started, it was about playing with and lowkey controlling men. It started right after the bubble era ended so the men and older salary men had money. It was a game of “how much money can I get from this man without having to lift a finger”.
The gyaru girls would eat a meal with a random man for 15 minutes and get 10000 yen. Or lie next to them in bed for one hour and get 100,000 yen. They worked really hard to level up their game - it was fun game with no sex involved that gyaru girls put their all into and made money from.
夜に「トゥナイト」っていう番組があって。ギャル・スタイルとかもやってたんだけど意味を変えていたから男好きのギャル・スタイルの紹介って形。それで田舎の子はそれを大体見てて、夜の11時50分ぐらいからやってる情報番組なんだけど、完全におじさん目線でやってた番組なのね。それをすごく皆んな見てたの。
要するに援助交際ってあるじゃないですか。ギャル文化において重要な事なんだけど、援助交際って今はもう売春って事になってるけど、最初の始まりの時はおじさんイジメで。要するにバブルが終わったばっかしくらいだからおじさんたちお金持ってたんだよ。如何におじさんたちから何にもしないでお金を引っ張るかを女子高生たちがゲームみたいにやってたの。ご飯食べただけで15分で１万円ずつもらって、1時間腕枕で寝るだけで10万円もらったりとか。セックスしないで如何にお金もらうかという事を一所懸命にやってた。
What kind of show was the “Tonight” show, was it like a news channel or interview-based?
「トゥナイト」について少しお聞かせください。ニュースっぽい感じ、それともインタービューとかを主体にやってたんですか？
Yeah, it was kind of a news style with interviews. During this time around 1998, news channels would spread sensationalized stories like prostitution being huge in Tokyo, despite it not being true. But the girls in the countryside would hear this and try to copy and thus, prostitution became a big thing among countryside gyarus. You’ll probably understand if you research this, but back then the Japanese media was horrible. I really hated it.
ニュースっぽい、インタビューとかして。１９９８年はに凄い売春が東京に流行ってたっていうのはメディアが流してるだけで、東京で売春が多いかったわけじゃないの。でも今いけてるギャルは売春してるって聞いて田舎の子たちはすごく売春してたの。調べるとわかると思うんだけど、日本のメディアってひどいんだよ。そういうところが僕凄く嫌で。
So Gyaru got big because of a lot of sensational news articles and media that made women be like, “Oh I actually want to do that too”.
ギャル文化は扇情的なニュースの報道によって流行ったという事ですか？
Yeah, exactly. Japan as a whole pays close attention to what is trending in Tokyo and no matter what it is, they’ll assume it’s a normal lifestyle in Tokyo. This is what happened with prostitution too, people tried to normalize it after seeing it become a “Tokyo trend” in the news. Everyone wanted to start doing it.
そうそう。日本は東京で流行ってる事が一般化するから、売春が東京で流行ってるっていう嘘のニュースが流れ出して売春も一般的になっちゃったの。普通って思うと普通に皆んながやりだすから。
Aside from dressing a certain way, does the Gyaru lifestyle have a philosophy or mindset too?
格好の他にギャル文化ではどういった事を大切にしてたんですか？
Like I said before, they were Japanese girls who didn’t care about what others around them thought. Honestly in Japan, once you go to school and make your group of friends, everyone starts to act the same - watch the same shows, wear the same clothes. If you didn’t you would be kicked out or ostracized. Normally people who didn’t care about their surroundings would be the target of bullying.
But gyaru were the first people who stood out on purpose, and didn’t care that they were different. Instead of getting bullied, they would be the subject of admiration and make people say, “woah, isn’t that person kind of cool?” even though they were different. It was the first time this kind of thing happened, ever.
In Japan it's so common to bully people just because they don’t fit the norm, especially among girls. If you say something odd and in an instant you’re labeled as a weirdo. Gyaru were probably the first girls to be able to think like people abroad, with less group-think mentality and more self taught freedom.
That’s why I think the people who dress up as gyaru today don’t embody gyaru at all. Nowadays, gyaru culture has changed and they dress to present a specific impression on people. It’s simply a fashion style. If they had the original gyaru mindset, they wouldn’t be dressing in gyaru costumes at all.
I think today’s goth girls have more of the personality and mindset of the original gyaru. The mindset of dressing for themselves, and disregarding men’s opinions. Men are scared of them, but women think they’re cool. I think a lot of goth girls are okay living in a girls-only world, at least while they are young, and don’t care about whether men like them or not. This kind of mindset is a gyaru mindset.
さっき言ったみたいに日本人でいながら周りの事を気にしないで生きていく事。本当に日本では学校にいてグループ作ったら、皆が同じ番組を見て、同じ洋服着ないとなんか違うと言われて弾かれるのよ。そんなの関係ないって言う人は本当にクラスでいじめられるしかないの。それをギャルはいじめられるとは逆に「あの人カッコよくねえ？」って言わせたのがギャルなの。
今まではいじめの対象だったんだけど、そう言う人って本当に日本にしてみては初めてだったの。日本って凄くあるのよ、特に女の子文化の中ではちょっと違う事言っただけで「え、何かあの人おかしくない？」って思われるみたいな事。多分海外の人みたいに自分で考えるという事をしだしたのはギャルだと思う。
だから今のギャルの格好してる子たちは逆に言うと「普通こういう格好すればこういう風に見られてる」って事を分かっててやってるから、俺からするともう全然ギャルという意識してないんだよ。今はもろファッションだから。その時のギャルの考え方をしてるんだったら、もう格好が違うと思うよ。
僕が今ゴスの子たちばっかり扱ってるのは、ゴスの子たちの方がおじさんとか男の人に嫌われるじゃない？そっちの方に女の子が流れてるから。それで普通の不良っぽい子たちもゴスの感じになってきてるから「同性だけでいい」みたいな感じの生き方をしていこうって、別に将来はわからないけど、今女の子たちだけで十分で、そんな男を好きとか嫌いとかどうでもいいって思う子はギャルの格好しないと思う。
So, there's a debate about Gyaru’s tanning their skin as a fashion statement. What is the inspiration behind that - for example does it mimic the look of a California girl or other ethnicities? What was the meaning behind Gyaru girls tanning their skin as part of their “image”?
肌を焼いていたギャルがいたと思うんですけど、そのトレンドの背景には何があったんですか？カリフォニアガールとかを真似しようとしてたんですか？
“There was an implied meaning that by tanning your skin, you could create distance between yourself and being Japanese.”
During the beginning of gyaru culture’s start, many Japanese people felt that “being Japanese” was super lame and undesirable. There was an implied meaning that by tanning your skin, you could create distance between yourself and being Japanese. Or at least personality/lifestyle characteristics associated with being Japanese. Also, around the 2000s, half- or bi-racial people were starting to “trend” and become models so a lot of girls wanted to be like them.
It’s the stupidest thing, but some people thought that they could become half by tanning their skin [laughs]. Like of course you can’t! But yes, unfortunately a lot of women felt limited by their Japanese-ness, they felt it wasn’t freeing. So they turned to becoming gyaru or tanning their skin because it meant they were different from normal Japanese people, and therefore, more free. Something along those lines.
Gyaru wearing the Yamanba sub-genre inspired looks.
For 23 years, I was the editor of a letter column in Nicola, a magazine for middle schoolers, and during that time there was a reader that wrote in, “When I dress up like a gyaru girl, I am able to rebel against my mom. If I dressed in normal clothes, I had to listen to my mom. So from now on, I’m going to become a gyaru.” I replied, “Why is that?” and they said, “Because then I can say no to my mom.” Japanese people think that if they change their outside appearance, their inner self and personality changes too.
For example, when one’s romantic partner changes, often someone's whole music taste, likes and dislikes, and personality changes along with the new partner. It's been that way forever in Japan, where women often change according to their partner's preferences. Though these days the opposite happens too, where the men change to fit the women’s preferences. It’s an “up to you” culture, where you give the other person power to choose for you what you eat, where to go, etc.
皆んなあの頃から日本人でいる事がすごく格好悪いと思ってるんだよ。肌を焼くというのは日本人から離れる意味があったりとか、ハーフが丁度モデルとかになりはじめたのも2000年前後で。雑誌の特集がハーフモデルになりたいとか、ハーフモデル的には「バカかこいつ、なれるわけないだろ」とかって思っちゃってたと思うんだけど、要するに肌を焼くっていう事は多分当時の女の子たちが日本人ている事が凄く不自由に感じてたと思うの。だからギャルになるとか、肌を焼くとか、普通じゃなくなる事は自由になる事を意味してるの。また「ハーフモデルに見せかける事が自由になる事だ」ってそんな感じなんだよ。
僕中学生の「ニコラ」っていう読者ページを23年間ずっとやってて、そこで言ってたのは「ギャルの格好するとお母さんに反抗できるんだ」って。今までの格好のままだとお母さんの言う事を全部聞かなきゃいけないから「私はギャルに変わります」みたいな。それで「何で？」って聞いたら「ギャルに変わったらお母さんにノーって言える」って。日本人って外見を変えれば中身まで変わるって思うの。
例えば彼氏が変わると聞いてる音楽とか好き嫌いまで変わってくるからね。未だにそうだよね、昔からそうだったけど。普通の日本人の子だったら付き合ってる男子で変わる。今度逆に男子も変わり出してる。「アップ・ツー・ユー」って言われてる文化なんだけど、あなたにお任せって言うのが日本人の特徴的な点。「何食べる」って聞いたら「あなたは？」って言うよね。
Do you have a moment that stands out in your career as editor for egg?
eggの編集者をしてた時の印象的なエピソードとかってありますか？
There was a specially memorable but sad moment while making egg, but I really like this story. There was this high schooler, an avid reader of egg, that I always hung out with and did karaoke with. During these moments we would take lots of stupid pictures together and sometimes published them too. Two years later, she graduates and goes to college. Then one day she contacts me and says, “I want all the pictures we took together back.” I asked her why and she goes, “Because I’m not like that anymore. I don’t want others to see how stupid I looked back then].” I was stunned and saddened that even this girl, someone who I thought absolutely embodied the gyaru culture and mindset, could and would change to act like all the regular girls.
It's such a regular mindset to want to erase your past once you stop wearing certain clothes and acting a certain way… but I didn’t expect this girl to become that way and care about what society thinks.
悲しいモーメントではあったんだけど、僕も凄く好きな話で。egg を作ってる時に僕が egg の読者なんかといつも遊んでたりしてたの、カラオケ行ったりとかして。それで写真バンバン撮ってそれを出したりしてたんだけど、２年後に高二だった子が大学に入ってその子から連絡があって「今まで撮った写真を全部返せ」って。それで「何で？」って聞いたら「いや、あれはもう高校生の時の格好だから、高校生の時の格好見せたくないし、大学に入ってあんなバカな姿は見せたくない」って言い出して。俺が「うわっ、まさかこの子に…」って言うぐらいショックを受けたんだけど、それって凄く普通の日本人の女の子の考え方とかするじゃない。もうこんな洋服は着れませんとか。だから「まさか！」って思って「この子は絶対ギャルだ」って思ってたんだけど「その子までも！」って感じ。
What part of this story sticks with you?
悲しいエピソードにしか聞こえませんが？
Thinking back on it now, it was a learning moment for me to realize that even girls who were knee-deep in gyaru lifestyle could change the moment they entered university and, consequently, the real world. It made me realize how difficult it was to stay in a gyaru, as societal pressure increases once you get older.
今考えると日本の女の子が置かれてた状況ってそんなに高校生で大騒ぎしてた子が大学に入った瞬間に「私はもうギャルじゃない！」って言い出すというのは凄いなあと思う。
I see. The pressure to conform to Japanese society is just that strong.
日本の同調圧力の凄さが伝わるエピソードですね。
Yes, exactly.
うん、うん。
That was your most sad moment. What about a positive moment during your long time as editor?
ポジティブな意味で印象的なエピソードなどはあったりしますか？
During my time at egg, the editor-in-chief and I weren’t very close. I wanted to keep egg running as a magazine about true gyaru girls, but the editor-in-chief had different ideas. He wanted to add more erotic elements to the magazine because its easier to produce and sell. He also didn’t care to select real gyaru to showcase in the magazine, and would rather simply accept everyone who applied to be in the magazine.
I don’t think just anyone who has interest and applies to be a “model” is representative of gyaru culture, and felt it was our duty to find them ourselves. But that takes time and money so the publishers don’t like that idea and we always fought over it.
But there was a time where I introduced some gyaru models directly to the editor-in-chief and they were standing before him. When he explained his ideas to them, they were like, “Okay, and?” [laughs] They knew the editor-in-chief wasn’t fun and his ideas weren’t that great, and still, they had no intention to hide their dislike [laughs]. I thought it was the coolest thing, how honest and straightforward they were, and it made me happy.
Most of the time, if a Japanese person was introduced to the editor-in-chief they would kiss-ass and say things like, “Wow, you’re the editor-in-chief? That’s incredible~.” But the gyaru girls aren’t like that. If they find any ideas boring, it will be written on their faces, even in front of someone important or powerful. I do the same thing. The fact that these young girls could stand up to executives made me think, “Is this the moment society changes for good?”
僕編集長と仲良くなっかたんだけど、だから僕は初期の egg の感じのままずっと続けたかったんだけど、編集長はもっとエロくというか楽に雑誌を作りたかったから「もう集まってくる子たちを出せばいい」って言い出して。それで僕は集まってくる子なら誰でも良かったわけじゃないからあちこちで面白い子を探したの。でもそれはそれでお金も時間もかかるじゃない。それでいつも喧嘩してたんだけど、その女の子を編集長を紹介したら「へー。それで？」って言われて《笑》。だからその子は編集長が面白くないやつだから面白くないという態度をとったの。僕は「すごいなあ」って、凄く正直で良いなあと思って、そういうのがすごく嬉しかったの。多分そういうのはないのよ、日本だと。普通編集長って聞いただけで「編集長？え、編集長なんですかあ？」みたいな感じだもん。お世辞ね。偉い人でも面白くなかったら、「ふーん」って、もう凄かったの。自分もそうやってるから、その女の子たちがそういう事できるっていう事が「これはもう時代変わっちゃうかなあ」と思ったんだけどね。
Around what time was this?
いつぐらいの話ですか？
Around 1995-98. After 1998 it was “Wow, editor-in-chief!” all over again [laughs].
95年から98年の間の物語。98年以降は「 えっ編集長なんですかぁ♡」っていう様な人が増えてくるの《笑》。
The models are really what made egg such a special magazine. You refused to hire professional models, and often would feature the same group of girls in multiple issues. Where did you find your favorite models?
やはり egg の醍醐味はプロのモデルではなく、普通に街の中に溶け込める素人のモデルを撮ってた事にあると思うんですけど、egg でも複数回に見られたお気に入りのモデルさん方は何処で見つけてきたんですか？
“There was no social media at this time, so word of mouth was everything.”
In the beginning when we would go find egg models ourselves, the first step was to find the “bad guys” or delinquents and ask them if they knew of any cute girls and we would go meet them at their schools, etc. It was all word-of-mouth, and during this time there were people who distinctly stood out from the regular crowd called, “super high schoolers”. As expected, there are always cute girls around delinquent crowds. I had a lot of delinquent friends, so I would just ask them to introduce me to interesting girls and from there, those girls would point me in a specific direction such as, “There’s this super cute girl named (blank) at this (blank) high school.” There was no social media at this time so word of mouth was everything. And I would have to visit said girls in person [laughs].
最初に egg のモデル探してた時は、まず悪いやつに「可愛い子いないか？」って聞いて女子校までその子に会いに行ったりとかしてた。口コミで必ずその頃って「スーパー高校生」って言われてた様な高校生で凄く目立つ子たちが出てきて、ちょっとメディアでは「高校生なんだけど目立つよねえ」っていう事があったんだけど。やっぱり不良の周りって可愛い子いっぱいいるから。それで僕も不良の友達多かったからそいつに「面白い子いない？」って女の子を紹介してもらって。それでその女の子に「どっか学校に可愛い子いない？」て聞いたら「～学校の～チャンが凄く可愛いよお」って。その当時は SNS なんてものはなかったから口コミの世界で教えてくれるんだよ。だからモデルっていうよりかは町の可愛い子たちがその時の僕の一番探さなきゃいけないコンセプトだったわけ。
There’s going to be a lot of people who read this article who are from our generation (Millennial and Gen Z), so this is their first introduction to Gyaru culture. Who do you think are the textbook examples of some of the legendary gyarus the Sabukaru community should check out?
SABUKARU は若い世代の読者が多いんですけど、ギャル文化に初めて触れる人も多いかと。ギャル文化を引率してた様な方々を何人か挙げてもらってもいいですか？
YOCO MORIMOTO, who’s currently a producer for MOUSSY is one. Some of the girls featured in egg went to the entertainment sector and became models, while others ended up on the side of creating things, and I’ve been fortunate enough to remain friends with the Gyarus turned creators. A lot of the popular fashion brands today, like MOUSSY and SLY, were actually founded by former egg models from when we first started, you know.
森本容子とか。「マウジー」っていうブランドのプロデューサーにあたる人なんだけど、芸能とかモデルに行った子と、物を作る方に行った子たちがいて。俺の場合は物を作る方に行った子たちと凄く仲良かったりしてて、その後もずっと付き合いがあるんだけど、その「MOUSSY」とか「SLY」とかその辺のギャルブランドのデザイナーたちって元々eggの最初、初期の頃の [モデルたちで]。
That’s interesting. Was EMODA also founded by a former Gyaru?
EMODA なんかも有名ですよね。
Yup, she was also used to model for egg back then. Once the magazine started to cater toward the older male demographic, the models started their own fashion brands and made it big as designers. That all happened around 2002~2003 if I’m not mistaken.
あの辺も皆んな egg に出てたりとかしてて、そこからeggがこう、おじさんぽくなると彼女たちは１０９のブランドで「ば〜ん」って跳ねてデザイナーをやり出して。それが2002〜2003年ぐらい。
Ena Matsumoto, a popular gyaru model and founder of the brand EMODA.
So there are some critics that believe that Gyaru style sexualizes women and is not empowering. What would you say to those critics?
評論家の中では「ギャルスタイルは女性のセックスアピールを強調するだけだ」とか「力を与えるには値しない」と思う人もいると思うんですけど、それに対してどう思いますか？
Gyaru brand COCOLULU is a staple for many within the subculture.
The Gyaru style was born out of pure curiosity. They didn’t necessarily have an end-goal by dressing the way they did, so I don’t think critics were in any way productive in any shape or form for the Gyaru culture. If you sit down and think about it, the Gyaru style came out of pure imagination, essentially causing a cultural phenomenon out of thin air. I’m sure they took reference from foreign styles, but they transformed that according to their own tastes and sensibilities. They were just trying out something new, and I don’t think they were making a statement or anything. They were just curious.
In essence, even girls dressed in skimpy outfits weren’t trying to look that way for attention but rather because they simply wanted to. There was this girl who wore this super short skirt, and as you can imagine, her panties were on full display when she climbed the stairs. I thought she didn't know, so I told her about it, but she was like, "so what?" Those are the sort of girls that modeled for egg when we first started photographing. They weren't dressing themselves to look sexy, but rather because they wanted to wear clothes like that.
当時のそのギャル・スタイルっていうのは基本的に彼女たちがただやりたいって言うところから始まってるから。別に誰を何とかさせるじゃなくて、自分がただやりたいだけだから、そんな評論家がどうこう言う事じゃないのよ。始めてやりたい格好をする人たちがそこに出てきたって言う事自体が凄いのよ。その前にギャルの格好をしてる見本がないんだもん。海外からの影響はあるかもしれないけど、それも全部自分たちの制服などに落とし込むから、全然初めての事だったりするの。彼女たちは別に誰かに影響を与えようとかはないの。やりたい格好をただしてたっていうだけ。
だからね、僕はその時にエロい格好してる子はエロい格好したいからしてるだけで、別におじさんにエロいっと思わせる為じゃなかったと思うの。一度ね、パンツ見えてる女の子、スカートが短い本当にちょっと階段登っただけで見えちゃう様な子の写真撮ってて。それで気付いてないとマズいと思って「あの、ちょっとパンツ見えてるよ」って言ったのよ。そしたら「うん、それで？」っって返されて。「いや、分かってるんだったらいいよ」ってなるじゃない。そうやって言うのが最初の子たちで、別にパンツを見せてセクシーにしようとかそういうのじゃなくて、ただ短いスカート履きたかったっていう人たちだったの。
So just a little bit more about the street photography aspect. You use a Cheki camera (Fujifilm instant camera) which is simple, but what is your advice to people who also want to do fashion street photography?
街中で見つけてきた様な女の子撮影するにあたってチェキカメラを使ってた思うんですが、腕前の問題である事の認識を踏まえて、極めてシンプルな道具で社会現象を起こしたかと。ストリート・フォトグラフィーにチャレンジされている方々の為にアドバイス伺ってもよろしいですか？
These days, everyone and their mother with a phone can take pictures, but it’s become more important than ever that you have a reason for taking those photos. From the atmosphere to the human relationship present on the scene, it’s critical that you capture all those details as a photographer.
Everything goes on Instagram now, but so long as you’re able to justify the reason you’re there to take the picture, I think any photograph can come out good. Photography allows you to take pictures from your perspective, but crucially from your perspective alone, so somehow showing how you relate to the scenes you’re taking a snap of instantly makes a simple photograph more interesting.
My snaps of these Gyarus were interesting because you can see how much they liked me as a photographer, not because I was mindlessly taking pictures of every Gyaru that came my way. Beyond just my relationship with the girls, I made sure that you saw the different relationships I had to the scenes I was taking.
カメラなんかはば皆んな携帯出すぐらい一般的になってて、もう誰でも取れるんだけど、本当に取らなきゃいけないのって、やっぱりその場の雰囲気とか、その人間性の部分とかだと思うのね。何でそこにいるのかが大切なんだけど、今は写真を取る為だけにそこにいる人たちばっかしだから。
もうね、「インスタの為にここで取らなきゃあ」みたいな。だから本当に何で写真家としての自分がそこにいる理由が分かる写真を撮れば、それだけで凄い面白い写真が取れると思うね。本来自分の立ち位置みたいなとこから写真を撮るべきで、その場所を撮ってもそこに自分がどう絡んでるのかという事が分かれば面白い写真になってくると思うのよね。じゃあギャルに好かれてるのか嫌われてるのかどっちか分かれば面白い写真じゃん。
でも「ギャルですね！」ってだけで撮ってるんだったら誰でも撮れるって言うのも変だけど、そういう関係性みたいなものだったら色んなものに対しての関係性を写せればすごく良い写真になると思う。
I was wondering, because you were kind of an older man taking pictures of younger girls, and I know after talking to you it’s truly because you're an appreciator of subculture and their empowerment. BUT, How did you get your models comfortable with the fact that they didn't know you, you have a different gender, age - how did you achieve these candid photos?
今回のインタビューを通して米原さんのギャル文化みたいなサブカルチャーに対する情熱は十分に感じられたんですが、当時のギャルたちとはどういう風に仲良くなったんですか？幅広いジャンルのスタイルをされてたモデルを撮ってた印象があるんですが。
I've always approached these girls with an objective, like bringing out the best features they have individually. So, if I wanted to take sexy pictures, I went and looked around for sexy girls. Different girls have different styles, so I don’t ever force a girl to do certain things to fit into a style they don’t already have in them. I simply respected them that much.
I approached these girls with full transparency regarding my intentions as a photographer, and it was important that I had their consent. So, if I wanted to take sexy pictures I told them exactly what I was looking for beforehand.
How stupid is it that I ask a girl that’s the complete opposite of what I’m looking for? I’d look foolish and make that girl feel uncomfortable at the same time. It was no easy task finding girls that fit the characteristics of what I was looking for, so asking them to do anything but being their complete self would’ve just ended up being a massive waste of time.
最初から目的を持って女の子にアプローチしてるから、その子の何を出したいとか。逆に言えばセクシーな写真を撮りたい時にはセクシーな子を探せばよかったりするじゃん。撮りたい時に撮りたい子を探すのよ。その子に無理矢理その子に無い表情とかさせないの。モデルさんが大切なの。
要するに egg を作ってる頃は色んなギャル探してきて、その子たちにちゃんと正直に「こういう写真を撮りたいのよ」って言ってわかってくれそうな人をまず探すのが凄く大切だったの。だからエッチな写真撮りたい時はエッチな子探して「エッチな写真撮りたいんだけど」って事前に言うみたいな。だからエッチじゃ無い子にエッチな写真を撮りたいって近づいても「バカじゃない？」って言われるだけじゃない。だけどエッチな子を探して、こういう写真撮りたいんだよって言えば「オッケー」ってなったりするし、真面目ってのも変だけど、凄い清楚な写真撮りたい時に清楚な子を探せばいいじゃない。違うギャルを探すにも僕一生懸命探して、やっと探し出した子を撮ってる時にその子に無いもの出させるって事は無駄だと思ってて。
You do a lot of things other than egg. What are your next moves?
EGG 以外にも様々な事をされてますが、今はどういった事をされてて、最近どんな事を面白く感じてますか？
No different from when I was working on egg, I’m still looking for people who are creating their own culture. Among them, I’m most interested in people who are sort of doing unpredictable things. People doing and making their own stuff, completely immersed in their own worlds.
egg の時もそうだったんだけど、自分たちの文化を作ってる様な子たちに僕は凄く注目してるの。その中でも何て言うのかな... 非生産的と言われるモノづくりをやってる人？会社で働いてる人じゃなくて自分で物を作ってる人たちが面白くて。何でもいいから自分で何かやってる人っていう事じゃなくて。
Where do you see the future of Gyaru culture going, especially now that it’s making a comeback?
今後のギャル文化の方向性について思う事はありますか？一周回ってトレンドと化してますが、どういう風に変わったと思いますか？
I think it’s more of a fashion thing that’s making a comeback, but the mentality of Gyaru culture, although it may have changed its appearance over the years, hasn’t really changed, at all. Time and politics are two big factors that affected the shape of which Gyaru culture appeared, but I think the mentality of Gyaru culture is almost non-existent among Japanese girls these days. It’s become a mold for people to fit in and nothing about it is as free as it was back then. Japanese people are obsessed with creating molds for everything, and Gyaru culture is a victim of that.
Different sub-genres of gyaru style.
うん、でもさっき言ったみたいに戻ってきてるって言ってもそれはファッションとしての戻り方で、精神性みたいな部分はもしかして、ずっと凄い昔からずっとあるもので、色んな形を変えながらその女の子たちの独立精神みたいな部分とかっていうのはずっと生き残っていたと思うのよ。でもそれは政治や時代だったりで小さくなったり本当に「ダーン」って大きくなったりするんだけど、今はもうとことん日本の女の子の独自性みたいな部分は凄く小さくなってる。多分無いに等しいぐらいだと思う。なんか言ってるけど、それは全部形にはまった物ばっかしで。だから「こういう風にすると自由ですよ」っていうところまで形にはめられてる。わかる？日本って「こうじゃなきゃ不良じゃないです」とか、ギャルも「こうだったらギャルになりますよ」っていう一つの見本になっちゃってる。
How important do you think it is to archive, but also bring the mindset of the original Gyaru culture you talk about, to a new audience?
当時のギャル文化の精神性を現代に繋げる為にもアーカイブの必要性を感じるんですが、米原さんが日本女性史においても重要性を主張する様に、ファッションで終わらせるにはあまりに勿体無いですよね。ギャル文化のコアな部分を後世に伝えるにはどういった事が必要なってきますか？
It’s such an impossible task because Japanese subculture is also dominated by these old men with old values. There are gatekeepers that maintain the mold of Japanese subculture, which gives no room for it to evolve. Adding oil to fire, when these subcultures are deemed important enough to be preserved, it’s managed by the same old guys that rather twist the narrative to service their interests.
The only way for anyone to interact with authentic Gyaru culture is bringing them to the self-proclaimed Gyarus, but even these girls don’t care for what Gyaru culture stood for back then. There’s no easy way out of this vicious cycle, and it’s always great talking to magazines like sabukaru to vent my frustrations about the current state of the culture.
だから凄く大変なんだよね。日本って実はサブカル的なところもおじさんっぽい考え方の人いっぱいいるから《笑》。なんていうか「サブカルはこうですよ」っていう様に決めつけてる人たちがいるのよ。だからそれを外に伝えるとかする時にその人たちを経営すると自分達の話になっていくの。もっとダイレクトに「その子たちは今こういう子たちです」っていうところまで行ける様にその子たちにダイレクトに会って欲しかったりするんだけど、「ギャルだよ」って言ってる様な人たちがギャルじゃなかったりするんだよ。だから「どうしよう」って思ってるんだけど、こういうインタビューあるとすごく嬉しいんだけど《笑》！
Do have any last words or a piece of advice for Sabukaru readers, or people trying to enter a creative field in general?
最後に若い世代に一言お願いします。
For some reason Japanese people are obsessed with creating molds to maintain how things are supposed to be.
Everything is black and white, but people shouldn’t be afraid of walking along the grey area, and I can only hope more people start to realize this idea. There’s nothing wrong with being in the middle of things. It’s impossible living in absolutes, and some people have to realize the world doesn’t revolve around them. If you’re not happy with your life right now, it’s easy to turn it around, so long as you realize you have the power to change the situation you’re out in.
There isn’t a mold for how subcultures should be, there’s no such thing as 100% subculture, and that mindset is rather harmful for the culture. I myself have collected all these books and magazines over the span of 50 years, but I wouldn’t necessarily say I was obsessed. I just started collecting things that I liked and needed up with this pile of junk. [laughs]
Yone-san shot by Mayu Uchida
日本人って凄く「こうじゃなきゃいけない」って思うじゃない。世の中が嫌いだからこういう風にしなきゃいけないみたいなところがあって。日本人は特に善か悪か二つに分かれるんだけど、そうじゃなくて真ん中を通れる様な考え方を出来る様な人たちが増えるといいなあと思ってる。別に真ん中で良いのよ。「自由じゃなきゃ嫌だ！」って思う必要もないし、自由じゃ無いのは窮屈って思う必要もない。自分のやり方が全てじゃない。だから今が嫌だったらどこを変えれば良いかとか考えればでわかるじゃない。すぐこうしなきゃ自由じゃないとか、こうしなきゃサブカルじゃないと思っちゃうんだけど、そんな100%サブカルなんて無理じゃん。
僕50年分ぐらいの雑誌とか本が溜まってるんだけど、て別に50年ずっとサブカルを意識してたわけでもなくて。好きな物を集めてて、結果としてこういう事になっただけで。「どすこいシスターズ」なんかも凄いサブカルだと思ったりした事ないからさ。二人合わせて300キロ《笑》。これね、スモーブームの時に若子と貴子っていうコンビいたじゃん。それをやって凄い人気になった《笑》。
Yone-san shot by Mayu Uchida
Written by Ora Margolis and Lisa Heverly
Interview Transcription by Lisa Heverly and Kensuke, Kensuke was born and raised in the Philippines, and is always looking to be amazed by cool people and things.
Photos by Mayu Uchida
